Polish Polkas vs. Mexican Music

[PushMe]

I have heard comments from friends in the past, that Polka Music sounds like Mexican Music, because of the trumpets playing. I never thought of this before in that manner, but I wonder what other 'outsiders' believe? I certainly don't want that impression..and could be a huge reason why outsiders aren't more attracted to this style of music.

Could Polka Music be the only genre out there, that uses horns as Mexican Mariachi music does? Truly, I love the trumpet and it's sound...but this is the impression that some of my friends have gotten. If you take out the horns or reduce their percentage of playing time, maybe more would just enjoy the rhythm and sound of the band?

Johnny Jr.

[MikeMatousek]

Sometimes I hear that from my non-polka friends too, Johnny. In fact, just the other day I thought I heard polka music playing from a distance and it turned out to be a Mexican band. Of course, I like the double-trumpet sound, so I like both kinds of music. At home, I often listen to more Tejano music than polka.

I don't think the similarity of the two kinds of music is necessarily a turn off to potential polka fans. Most of my friends have a neutral or even positive perception of Mexican music but, for whatever reason, a less than positive perception of polka music. I think it's more of a challenge for these folks to get past the stereotype of polka music rather than its actual sound. I'd bet they'd have the same handicap whether they heared two clarinets or two saxes playing a polka. It's possible that less emphasis on lead and more on rhythm might appeal more to the younger, non-polka listener. Since the guitar still rules the non-polka music scene, they'd probably have issues when they saw some bellowed instruments, though.

Mike M.

[jrodg]

Re : "Some people say that polkas sound like Mexican music...I certainly don't want that impression...Could this be why more people don't like polkas ( or words to that effect ) ? " : Here's another one of those "fear or bias against anything Mexican" posts --There've been a few lately.If non-Mexican polka bands can't make it on their own or be popular among people uynder the age of 75 its misguided and wrongheaded to try to blame this , too, on the Mexicans.
In fact, there are many good reasons why "Polish style" sounds a bit similar to Mexican stylings : Reason number one is ( ready for this revelation ? ) that Tex-Mex ( the dominant style along the US-Mexican border) IS polka music, Latin style-- It is actually the largest, most vital ,creative and youthful style of polka music in the Americas by far---and it owes its origins to the influence of polka- playing European settlers in Texas (mainly German and Czech, to a lesser extent Polish,too) 100+ years ago. "Polish style" in the US also much to this Mexican style, which gave the field hits like the Peanuts polka and inspired numbers like Del Rio Drive ( Jerry Darlak & Co. do a particularly nice version of this one ) and several nice numbers by Mike Surratt ( like one of my favorites, "Tejanita") . People familiar with both the Polish and Mexican repertoires ( altho I suppose there aren't that many) know that the great Eddie Blazonczyk was particularly influenced by Mexican music : This is noticeable not only in his arrangements and horn sound but in his repertoire: Several of his main/theme song-type numbers are English language adaptations of famous Mexican songs . Then, too, the Mexican repertoire and influence in leading, influential groups like Polka Family and Brave Combo, to name just a couple, is very great indeed. All told, you shouldn't be afraid of "creating an impression" that your favorite ( =Polish) style and "Mexican" are related because it is actually a well-established fact that they are and have been for many years ---and this relationship has helped, not hurt polka music, judging from the track records of the bands mentioned above. Fortunately, neither they, nor really creative people in general , are afraid or prejudiced against related, but different ethnic styles: Instead of worrying about possible similarities, they adapt many of the beautiful sounds they hear from the other styles to "Polish" style, which actually makes this style much "bigger" and more attractive than it would otherwise be...As far as "youth appeal" is concerned , all of the polka styles would do well to try to emulate "Tex-Mex" style because its youth appeal is tremendous: Most of its performers and fans are young.
The idea derived from this that you are considering about dropping the horns you love ( and or "bellows"!?) , or at least somehow reducing their role ( using mutes the whole time or what, I wonder? ^^) in order to "sound less Mexican" would really be like cutting off your nose to spite your face ( If you want an example of what "Chicago polkas" sound like without these instruments, just check out the Chicago Polkaholics, who are being actively promoted on the polka sites these days...What do you think, Johnny?) --Seriously, this paranoia and fear of Spanish culture and stylings has begun to take on really irrational dimensions on these sites all of a sudden,with one bigoted , anti-Mexican number being promoted which is truly antithetical to the happy , positive spirit of polkas, and now these musings about dropping the main polka band instruments in order not to sound Mexican.. ( !?!? ) --It would be great if the energy being expended on such xenophobic paranoia ( What is this?--Ask Webster if necessary) were put to positive use in activities like playing and creating good, happy polka music ( whatever ethnic influences might be included: The more great sounds, the better ) .

[PushMe]

All I'm saying (Joe) is that many people still believe that the "Polka", no matter what part of the world your favorite style is from, is looked down upon the general public as goofy and "carnival music"..

Listening to 247.Com, I can relate to how the public feels, because I myself here a lot of carnival music as well. So, if I think it sounds that way, just imagine what the general public views it as goofy sounding etc...

The sad part is, Polka, has a poor perception today and it is what it is. Most polka bands have a accordion/concertina/violin, trumpet, tuba...your typical 'elementary band school instrumentation'. The 'oompa oompa ' sound is not attractive to the public...where maybe only at German Beer Gardens around the world.

Joe, I love this music as much as you do. I've played in your band for many years. I've seen this from both sides of the fence.

I still have hope (as most us posters do) that Polkas will turn around someday and more people will gravitate towards it.

Sto Lat!

John

[jrodg]

Well, polka music was originally European festival and popular dance music and that's pretty much the role it still plays , except now in Canada, the US and Mexico, as well as Europe. Musical styles and preferences change over time, so it's not surprising that most young people here today tend to prefer musical styles other than polka.your statement,John,that polka bands' usual instrumentation (accordion,concertina, violins, trumpets, tuba ) is basically elementary school type instrumentation isn't very accurate : the first two instruments are played rarely ,if ever, in our schools ( whenI brought an accordion to my school job one day because I was asked to play a birthday tune on it for a French teacher, none ofthe high school kids even knew what it was(!?!?) ,which surprised me ). The instrument was quite the hit at the high school that day, though: The kids asked me to play more for them at the cafeteria, and they sang along and really enjoyed it--That surprised me -- and I didn't see anybody making fun of it. The violin, trumpet, etc. are of course widely used by symphony orchestras ---and in jazz,etc.--but again hardly ever in elementary school : The "horns" are particularly popular in high school bands,which thousands of kids participate in,and in many jazz groups formed inthe schools , as well. The violin is, of course, also a favorite instrument of "CountryWestern," which you enjoy a lot, I know. Jazz, which specializes in horns, has its own popularity problems these days ( and has for years--virtually always) : Most jazz groups have a harder time getting gigs or being appreciated than polka groups do---and of course their image is very "American" and jazz generally enjoys a very "cool" image...so having a "festival" or carnival-like appeal,as you put it, might not actually be the worst thing for polka music.
You seem to be searching for reasons why "polka music" is not the most popular in the US today ---and coming up with some "red herrings"---Just as this situation is not the fault of "Mexicans" or their music ,neither are the horns, violins, etc. to blame. Polka is often considered foreign, corny and/or old fashioned by the English-speaking American mainstream ; i.a. because of its European connections ( use of Polish, German, etc.) , the often simple-minded English-language lyrics they hear ( the old ethnic lyrics are often much better but of coure most Americans don't "hear" of understand these) , and, indeed , because most of the polka fans these days are older. There are various ideas afoot for trying to counter this perception : What success these may have in the long run is not clear at this point. Some strategies tried ( like eliminating the ethnic languages and just singing in English ) have failed completely so far, probably because, as Alex Meixner stated in an interview, "If you throw out the foreign-language vocals , very little of quality remains" ---and , I might add, this strategy would also cause most of the remaining "base"' of the music, who still love its ethnic roots and the "old"' songs, to give up on it . Whatever the situation may be , resemblance to a popular Latin genre or the use of horns and violins really aren't the reasons for the problems...and nothing good is to be gained by "barking up the wrong tree."

[MikeSurratt]

Woof -- basically slovene & polish polka is on the decline because the crowd that follows it is dying off -- sure -- you might get a bunch of 30-40-50 somethings at a popular polka fest, but -- just look around at all the small club dances that were around just 5 years ago that closed their doors because the people in charge died...or went to a retirement community.

On the other hand -- German & Mexican styles of polka are flourishing in the USA -- Mexican/Latin styles are a "family" tradition right now and who knows, maybe that will die off too in a generation or so like most european family music. The germans are NOT looking at their music based on one style (polka) - their bands produce traditional based music along with whatever is new out there -- German Pop/Rock/Rap and then something traditional sounding all happen during many concerts. Sorry -- when I play an Oktoberfest or Beer fest -- I play a mix of music and if you really think about it -- many of the flourishing bands like Brave Combo play outside the box too...

We are all still LUCKY that there are fests/dances that promote many styles of polka -- who knows how many will remain...when was the last time you saw a Teen/Young Adult polka band??? I've been waiting since I started my band at the age of 17 for the next young band in our area -- that was 37 years ago and it hasn't happened yet...shame really -- I could give that band a LOT of work...

MS

[PushMe]

Thanks for the insight Mike on your tours throughout the Country. Since I'm not with a traveling band or local for that matter, I wouldn't know who's on the incline or decline.

My point simply was to Joe Rogers that Polka Music is viewed as Merry-Go-Round music. Even toys that my 4 month old daughter has, has a Polka beat to it..Maybe that should be encouraging news?????

lol..anyways...good conversation!!

Johnny Jr.

[MikeSurratt]

Well -- I'm guilty of thinking that some of the "OLD" (really old) polka music music reminds me of cartoon soundtracks -- you know -- the old pen and ink ones with dishes and food dancing around with mice on the counters of a kitchen...

LOL -- sorry -- clarinets do that to me...and most vintage polka used a lot of clarinets...

MS

[ClaudeW]

For what it is worth, when I played in a Big Band in Tucson, we had a few Mexican polkas in the book and I found then easy to play honky style. A lot of polkas do not lend thenselves to honky style drums.

I was eating on the river walk in San Antonio with my brother when some Mariachis arrived to play for us. My brother played in our polka band in Chicago when we were in high school. The Mariachis asked for requests and we asked for a polka. After conferring, they said the only polka they could play was Beer Barrel. We quickly said "No, a Mexican polka" and they were amazed that we even know that Mexicans had polkas. They played several!

Claude

[Kevin_Kurdziel]

John,

I have to disagree with you that alot of the music on 247Polkaheaven.com is carnival music. Since I do a show on the network, I may not be completely objective, but I believe that is an unfair comment. 247 is inclusive of many different polka styles, not just one or two. There may be some styles that don't appeal to you, but they do appeal to other people. I see emails each week which are sent to the network which validate this. I do think however, that polka music, regardless of which style, could be presented, packaged and marketed differently. I think that's the key. I look foward to hearing your thoughts. This type of dialouge is good and should continue.

[PushMe]

Kevin,

With regards to 247.com, I'm listening to it live now, and they are playing some old Bavarian style music...Again, it's mostly that type of programming (which fills a void). The good thing going for 247.com is that the listener is not bombarded with ad's to different cruises and public service ad's every 2 or 3 songs.

I know your show is probably very well, though I have never listened to it and that Ray Z. has spent a lot of out of pocket money to put 247.com online for the world to listen to.

You go to any amusement park, and you will hear oo0mpa music throughout the day. It's a shame, that we can't change the image, but you leave it up to any band that's playing this weekend and beyond and you're going to be made fun of. I don't know why myself, but most of the time, you will have people look at you funny...but, if you include a pitcher of beer in the mix, it makes it more fun.

Now, as I end this post, there is a cool "push show" on now..they just played something good off of Henny's new CD.

Take care- John Jr.

[Mike Bernardoni]

Hi!
My First post!
Anyway....this happened to me at our Family Reunion on July 4th. We're talking about a huge group of Polish & Italian Americans. I put some Push Polka on the Player and a cousin said....why are you playing Mexican Music? I had to EXPLAIN!
See..these folks ONLY KNOW Frankie Yankovic Music and the Lawrence Welk Show. So what I was playing WASN'T what they were used to listening to. Of Course my wife,kids,mom and dad knew but the rest of the "CLAN" didn't!! It aggravated me but I gave them a good dose of POLISH POLKA!!! Check out the link for more about me!
http://www.pso.siu.edu/emonitor/issue11/AH5MikeB.html

Take Care!
Mike Bernardoni
aka
"Big Daddy Kahuna the Italian/Polish Polka Lovin' Cook"

[Mike Bernardoni]

Oh,
Another thing... when I mention to most folks that don't know me that I LOVE POLKA...
I get these funny looks and laughed at. I don't care...I just keep "PUSHIN' THE POLKA"!!
My kids were/are brought up on Polka like I was. They know there heritage and we
follow as many "Old Country" customs as we can. They are even learning some Polish and
Italian. The other night our 23 year old daughter was "Primping" herself in front of a mirror
before going out...she was singing "SHE LIKES KIELBASA"! I said honey...what was that you were singing??
Polka Dad! Polka!! One other thing I do...when I drop our 16 year old son at school..I make sure that
Polka is playing in the car on the way to drop him off! I always pick a good tune that has a good hook!
He always tells me...DAD!! I had POLKA in my head all day!! It WORKS!!
Take Care!!
Mike Bernardoni

[PushMe]

Mike,

Great encouraging words about Polka Music and your family...I'm glad to hear it's 'sticking on them' ...here comes another 'young generation' of Polka Lovers...

My daughter is 6 months..and I have her dancing to polka music on a weekly polka show this morning from UConn...She loved it!!!

Johnny Prytko Jr.

[Mike Bernardoni]

Johnny! I LOVE YOUR MUZYKA!!
They are learning both of their Family Heritage Languages!!
It's all about SATURATION!!
I worry sometimes...I have 3 sibling that don't give a
GOWNO!!(goovnoh) about their HERITAGES,
then I have one brother...my middle one...JOSEPH..
Funny story.....He would always get excited about
St. Patrick's Day..this year....he was eating his
Corn beef and Cabbage...we were sitting at the table..
LOL....He had this St. Patrick's Day button on....
all at once...he took it OFF and slapped it on the
kitchen table(my brother is hearing impaired since birth)...
I said JOE(in sign language)...WHAT'S WRONG??
He said "I AM NOT IRISH!! I AM ITALIAN & POLISH!!"
He is definitely proud of who he is and where
he came from!! What worries me is that when I'm gone...
will my kids carry on everything I have taught them...??
I think so....I so much stress this to everyone!!
Those that know me well...even those that just casually know
me...KNOW that I am SO Proud of MY ETHNIC HERITAGE!!
We have to stress this to our kids..the "NEW GENERATION"!!
I am not so sure about this "MELTING POT" mentality!!
The WWW makes it easier for us to find out info on our
Heritage Customs and Traditions!! I am so lucky that
my Parents...Grandparents..and Great Grandparents..(GOD BLESS THEM ALL!)
instilled this in me!!! Since you read the article that was done on me,
you know where I am coming from! We have our first Grandchild on
the way the end of March 2010! I already have a POLISH EASTER COLORING BOOK
and Crayons purchased!!
FACEBOOK....it can be a good or a bad thing....I have made it my
SOAPBOX...MY PLATFORM to PUSH..VOICE...the IMPORTANCE
of our ETHNIC HERITAGES!!
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1562572000

Simple thing...customs at Christmas....Easter....FOOD...
of course the MUSIC!! Are all ways we can KEEP IT ALIVE!!
Okay.....
I've said enough!! Or have I???
DZIEKUJE!!
Mike

Mike,

Great encouraging words about Polka Music and your family...I'm glad to hear it's 'sticking on them' ...here comes another 'young generation' of Polka Lovers...

My daughter is 6 months..and I have her dancing to polka music on a weekly polka show this morning from UConn...She loved it!!!

Johnny Prytko Jr.

[jrodg]

Re your telephone question on this subject, Johnny ( This response channel was easier for me than trying to figure out which of your many email addresses is now valid) : the two versions of "Nie bój sie" you gave ( your own and Jan Cyman's) sound just the same to me ---and all the vocals I've heard by the Tony Blazonczyk group sound fine,too---as might be expected from a Blazonczyk band -:)

[Eddiebiegaj]

John,

I agree with Mike and Joe. Tejano is very good music which has a very strong fan base. We should embrace our simarlities but be proud of our differences. Modern America has made simplistic music the norm. The days of great horn or guitar solos are passed. Even great singers are no longer part of the scene. Rap, C&W and other pop music have eliminated prodigal performances. The 'Hook' is the only thing that drives the music. That being true, how can music which is complex and driven by longer melodies compete with 'Who Let the Dogs Out'. Maybe polka bands should repeat a phrase over and over. Enjoy what you enjoy. Bring other to enjoy but don't expect them to be instant converts to totally foriegn sounding music. If the music which had the best skilled musicians were the most popualr music in America, then Jazz, Opera, clasical and some Hard Rock would be the most popular. Those musical forms allow the musicians to be the best they can be. Polka does some of that. Love Polka!

Eddie Biegaj

[Frank Waltos]

Let me throw in my two cents worth. First of all, I am not a musician, I am just one of those purists that enjoy tradional polka music. I agee with much that was noted above. With the crowd getting older and fading away it scares me to think that I'm probably not too far behind them, so I can place myself in their shoes. As I think back to those early years in the 40's - 50's, polka bands were almost all local, usually just a group of guys that happened to play instruments in someone's garage or back yard. Were they good? Probably not by today's standards. These guys were popular because everyone knew them personally - usually worked alongside them during the week in the coalmines or steelmills. Come the weekends with some kielbasi and beer and all hell broke loose. Now just maybe, that music served to remind the folks of the old country, which made it very popular.

Now jump forward a couple of decades and that whole sceneiro disappears. The glue that kept that music strong is now rapidly going underground (literally). Those of us that remember those days cannot expect the same association because we did not come over on the boat. We weren't pineing for a bit of the old country. We tend to enjoy the music because our parents did. Polka music (and dancing) needs a new glue. One of the successful attributes of other genres like R&B, Country, etc., is the band's engagement with the audience. A band cannot remain stoic on the stage and expect the crowd to love it. It aint gonna happen! I went to a dance this past weekend where such a band played, and their stage personality stunk. Most of the crowd was gone by the third break. They would have been better off simply playing CD's; at least they would have saved on gas. However, there are signs where a number of bands are becomming more engaging and the crowd reaction shows. Lets hope it's not too late to re-energize polkas.

I have been known to drive hundreds of miles to dance to a good polka band. This is a sad statement.

Frank

[PushMe]

Well, getting back to my original post, of Polkas sounding like Mexican Music...it's true..especially with the horns blaring. I've been told that polkas seem like mexican music or the very least, carnival music.

Has anyone been to the Big E or any big town fair ever? Ever hear the music that's played at Lake Compounce? It's all a version of Polka, and sadly people relate our music to that type at a carnival or big town fair. There is still a negative stigma placed on polka, and not sure why anymore.

There are so many reasons why Polkas, have a stigma, and I think the way it is, is fine, it'll never be bigger than it is. But on the other hand, it may dwindle over the next generation as more and more people die off and no one is replenishing the dances.

[jrodg]

Looking at the phenomenal success of the "Accordion Show Polka Medley" ( 107 K + hits on youtube, with many many people praising it and polkas to the skies ) makes me think that maybe you may be on to something with your suggestion that mainstream America may actually prefer polkas without horns, and therefore that , in the long run, ensembles that don't use horns may have the best chance for mainstream success and survival ( sad as that may be for all of us who love the trpts, clarinets, etc. ) ---After all,this performance, which is praised by great numbers of people as the finest of the polka genre, "the greatest" and "truly awesome", etc. is completely "hornless" --- and , to my knowledge, no polka performance using "horns"has received anything near this amount of adulation.
Mike T, the very talented singer/guitar+banjo+ harmonica player who gives our group most of its contemporary appeal (whenever we play a more "American" or non-ethnic type gig) and is a successful modern performer in his own right, is probably speaking for the average non-polka music fan ( and non-polka musician) when he notes, viewing a youtube video of a jam featuring "polka horn playing giants" Dennis P, Lenny G and Hank G: "These guys are great players---but the whole thing comes across as ethnic ( That is to say, "foreign") to the average American viewer ---It's just not their cup of tea---On the other hand, the non-horn playing guys on the youtube video cited above are enthusiastically embraced by large numbers of mainstream types ---just as Frankie Yancovic, another non-horn playing artist and his band were decades ago...so, based on all this. I'm beginning to think that there is maybe, after all, an important element of truth in what you are saying, at least insofar as you imply that the horns are actually counterproductive in terms of gaining mainstream popularity. Some polka players may thus well achieve greater popularity for themselves and the polka genre by "doing without" the horns...What a shame, tho, that this appears to be the case for all of us who love the trpts and clarinets....